some people have asked me whether i can preach in mandarin. (i have done it twice). these are the things that i think about to answer the question:
while my language skill has improved (after all, i speak mandarin every day to my wife), there a few things that i can't do;
* my theological education has been received in english (implication; i tend to exegete the bible in english)
what's wrong with that, you may ask? it means that my sermon preparation is done in english, and i structure main ideas, and translate it into chinese
the problem with that is that i dont' interact with the language as well (some problems in the chinese is that the logic is not as clear because conjucntions are less well set out(well, at least to my febble mind).
hence for example, i present a prefectly cogent argument from a passage in romans, while what is required is an interaction with the chinese language.
why is that important?
chinese people really do have a respect for the beauty of their langauge (a lot of preachers introduces their sermons with a chinese poem), and interact with the language closely.
You can see the implication of this in terms of some people's reaction to a clearer translation to the chinese bible replacing the union version, e.g. New chinese version
some people would still prefer the union (just like some ppl hold onto the KJV), because of them holding onto the langauge (which is a core value for them)
hence while i can speak to the chinese people, i wonder whether i can preach truly to their hearts
(besdies language, there are many more factors , like how chiense prefer to talk around the issue into order for the listener to infer the core issue as against teh english way of expositing and directly speaking at in issue, with the potential to cause offence (e.g. lose face)... ) but that's for another day...
Sunday, April 3, 2011
how does the one child policy affect children's ministry
i have observed that at some mainland chinese ministries, that the one child policy (as well as the extended family structure) can have a negative impact on ministry.
a bit of background:
* in some families, 6 adults (4 grannies, 2 parents) focuses their energy to raise one child, thus raising the status of child to the top of their priorities
* in most churches in sydney , i guess the main engine room for children's ministry would be mothers that have children.
* in a typical mandarin speaking church, there will be lots of grandparents that have migrated as part of family relocation to sydney. Given their age and background, it is obvious that for some people, some of the views will be different to what a Australian based/Christian worldview. (at this point, i need to reiterate, i am NOT criticizing old people. Some of the older Chinese Christians i have met suffered unimaginably for the gospel and their experiences and perserverance is worthy of our respect).
* in some more informal settings for children's ministry, grandparents asks to be involved, due to a mixture of boredom, concern for their kids, and other reasons.
* this is complicated by the fact that the chinese view of of the extended family (v nuclear family)
* old people are respected in the Chinese (and many tradations), hence it's hard to give them advice on how to run things (like Christian children ministry).
What's the results of the above explosive mix?
there is a potential of children's ministry in some mainland chinese majority churches where ministry decisions are influenced by older people, with a chinese view of having the child at the centre of attention and the apex the pyramid of priorities.
i.e. child > parents
this is very different from the God ordained order of creation
God> man (i.e. parents) > child
it is this that i struggle with as my wife is now pregnant. Namely, whether it is possible to join a Chinese ministry that has a healthy sunday school. At present, i can't see it happening, hence i am staying at an english speaking chiense church.
a bit of background:
* in some families, 6 adults (4 grannies, 2 parents) focuses their energy to raise one child, thus raising the status of child to the top of their priorities
* in most churches in sydney , i guess the main engine room for children's ministry would be mothers that have children.
* in a typical mandarin speaking church, there will be lots of grandparents that have migrated as part of family relocation to sydney. Given their age and background, it is obvious that for some people, some of the views will be different to what a Australian based/Christian worldview. (at this point, i need to reiterate, i am NOT criticizing old people. Some of the older Chinese Christians i have met suffered unimaginably for the gospel and their experiences and perserverance is worthy of our respect).
* in some more informal settings for children's ministry, grandparents asks to be involved, due to a mixture of boredom, concern for their kids, and other reasons.
* this is complicated by the fact that the chinese view of of the extended family (v nuclear family)
* old people are respected in the Chinese (and many tradations), hence it's hard to give them advice on how to run things (like Christian children ministry).
What's the results of the above explosive mix?
there is a potential of children's ministry in some mainland chinese majority churches where ministry decisions are influenced by older people, with a chinese view of having the child at the centre of attention and the apex the pyramid of priorities.
i.e. child > parents
this is very different from the God ordained order of creation
God> man (i.e. parents) > child
it is this that i struggle with as my wife is now pregnant. Namely, whether it is possible to join a Chinese ministry that has a healthy sunday school. At present, i can't see it happening, hence i am staying at an english speaking chiense church.
waiting v wisdom
bumped into andrew hong again and he encouraged me (again) to blog on various things.
here's a summary of a lot of cultural insights that maybe worthwhile to a lot of people.
1. the theology of 'waiting'
1.1 background to thought
i have been exposed to this in various forms in the past weeks:
* during a meeting, when asked a committee member whether a decision should be made (i try to achieve consensus). he wanted to wait and pray about it.
* some people recommend the form of guidance is pray and wait.
* there has been a big church wide decision that requires vote casting. i wonder how many of those that cast votes
1.2 theological background
* there are various people that advocate waiting as a spiritual thing to do. Although there are also western manifestations of this, there is also a chinese strand of thought that is derived from Watchman Nee, with an example of this in 'The Spiritual Man, p.620'
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=R8y9mWsz5PwC&pg=PA620&lpg=PA620&dq=watchman+nee+waiting&source=bl&ots=oHadE4bntL&sig=p5E4cv9qvWTKLVvj-Mu2rBesFSc&hl=en&ei=xiKZTaPVJ4XCcY_h-ZMH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
( i am sure andrew has a much more well argued and well researched view on this point, but i'll have to trawl through his teasure trove of blogs!).
But from a brief read of his writings and my limited understanding, some concluded waiting seems to be the spiritual thing to do when making a decision
it may have to do with a dualistic view that regards anything of the flesh, including the mind, as carnal, and hence unfit to make spiritual decisions.
1.3 what do i think of it?
I believe that waiting can be good, but it cannot be in the place of using a Christ transformed mind in using our wisdom in making decisions (Romans 12:1-2). Christ does not condemn creation but rather redeems it (cf Col 1:15-23, Romans 8). Hence it is important to reject dualistic views and train people to have a ever transformed mind to make decisions in accordance to the revealed will of God in the bible and also train people to make decisions according to the doctrines formed from his revelation.
1.4 a small excursis
andrew recommends that i should publish a book on my views, but as a carnal man, i should pray about it and wait :)...
here's a summary of a lot of cultural insights that maybe worthwhile to a lot of people.
1. the theology of 'waiting'
1.1 background to thought
i have been exposed to this in various forms in the past weeks:
* during a meeting, when asked a committee member whether a decision should be made (i try to achieve consensus). he wanted to wait and pray about it.
* some people recommend the form of guidance is pray and wait.
* there has been a big church wide decision that requires vote casting. i wonder how many of those that cast votes
1.2 theological background
* there are various people that advocate waiting as a spiritual thing to do. Although there are also western manifestations of this, there is also a chinese strand of thought that is derived from Watchman Nee, with an example of this in 'The Spiritual Man, p.620'
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=R8y9mWsz5PwC&pg=PA620&lpg=PA620&dq=watchman+nee+waiting&source=bl&ots=oHadE4bntL&sig=p5E4cv9qvWTKLVvj-Mu2rBesFSc&hl=en&ei=xiKZTaPVJ4XCcY_h-ZMH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
( i am sure andrew has a much more well argued and well researched view on this point, but i'll have to trawl through his teasure trove of blogs!).
But from a brief read of his writings and my limited understanding, some concluded waiting seems to be the spiritual thing to do when making a decision
it may have to do with a dualistic view that regards anything of the flesh, including the mind, as carnal, and hence unfit to make spiritual decisions.
1.3 what do i think of it?
I believe that waiting can be good, but it cannot be in the place of using a Christ transformed mind in using our wisdom in making decisions (Romans 12:1-2). Christ does not condemn creation but rather redeems it (cf Col 1:15-23, Romans 8). Hence it is important to reject dualistic views and train people to have a ever transformed mind to make decisions in accordance to the revealed will of God in the bible and also train people to make decisions according to the doctrines formed from his revelation.
1.4 a small excursis
andrew recommends that i should publish a book on my views, but as a carnal man, i should pray about it and wait :)...
Monday, March 28, 2011
% CDP first pref in NSW election
More Xns in North shore/the Shire? Results show otherwise. % of first pref for CDP in auburn (5.0), bankstown (4.1), blacktown (6.0), campbelltown (4.8), canterbury (3.7), East Hills (4.1), fairfield (5.4), Granville (5.6), Kogarah (5.5), lakemba (4.4), liverpool (6.9), menai (52), mount druitt (8.8), penrith (5.9), riverstone (4.1), rockdale (4.3), smithfield (7.9), toongabbie (4.6), is higher than Davidson (2.1), cronulla (3.5), Hornsby (3.1), Kuringgai (2.1), lane cove (2.6), manly (1.6), miranda (3.6), north shore (1.7), pittwater (2.2), wakehurst (2.9), willoughby (2.2)
Friday, September 3, 2010
He gave his life, what more can he give?!
This is a hymn that i grew up with:
O how He loves you and me
O how He loves you and me
He gave his life, what more can he give?
O how He loves you
O how He loves me
O how He loves you and me
When i was young i thought it was a beautiful song.
after i while i realise that the theology is somewhat questionable.
The phrasing of the question "He gave his life, what more can he give?" suggest an answer in the negative.
But we can see that in the bible, that it does not answer the question in this way:
Romans 5:9-10
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Romans 8:32-34
32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Notice that Paul argues that because of Jesus death, we can have HOPE in better things. All too often we don't operate in hope, hence our Christain life malfunctions. I reckon that guy in shawshank redemption has a better idea of Christian life than most Christians (although his hope is based on his own efforts). At time i reckon we are quite pathetic when we hope so little in the sure promises of God.
this - the importance of tursting in God's future provision - is the very point that Piper argues in the book future grace.
O how He loves you and me
O how He loves you and me
He gave his life, what more can he give?
O how He loves you
O how He loves me
O how He loves you and me
When i was young i thought it was a beautiful song.
after i while i realise that the theology is somewhat questionable.
The phrasing of the question "He gave his life, what more can he give?" suggest an answer in the negative.
But we can see that in the bible, that it does not answer the question in this way:
Romans 5:9-10
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Romans 8:32-34
32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Notice that Paul argues that because of Jesus death, we can have HOPE in better things. All too often we don't operate in hope, hence our Christain life malfunctions. I reckon that guy in shawshank redemption has a better idea of Christian life than most Christians (although his hope is based on his own efforts). At time i reckon we are quite pathetic when we hope so little in the sure promises of God.
this - the importance of tursting in God's future provision - is the very point that Piper argues in the book future grace.
Saturday, August 21, 2010
My thoughts on the election
It's been a sad few years for Australian politics. Men of conviction (e.g. Rudd and Turnbull) had been deposed, instead replaced by puppet heads devoid of personaility (Kenneally, Gillard, Abbott).
Maxine McKew rightly assessed the sentiments (at least for her Bennalong electorate), namely indeed it is a strategic mistake. In her Chinese dominated electorate, the betrayal (the exact opposite of the virtue of loyalty esteemed by the Chinese) by the labor party in deposing a PM with fluent Mandarin has cost them the electorate, predicatbly.
However, she is also right in expressing the lack of policy and conviction expressed by either party, and the lack of hope or excitement in her electorate (which is also true of my feeling).
We have not been given any policies of note, and instead have been given just character assinations repeated over and over (i remember watching the train-wreck Ad - THREE TIMES - during ONE commercial break.)
Neither party in their speeches has said anything of note. (well, abbott has once again made a fool of himself , attacking Gillard and labor instead of doing anything positive to form government).
I personally would have hoped that either of them woudl have said the following:
'We have clearyl outlined (whatever our policies/action) is during this campaign, and respect the opinion of the public, etc. We will work with whichever indepedent/green and try to head towards this direction, etc, etc)
What saddens me most is that there is that both the upper and lower house may hang in the balance of the greens - one of the most openly anti-Christian policital party. I earnestly pray right now that either party (hopefully the coalition) can form a majority governemtn without involving a minor party.
It is right in 2 Timothy that we pray for a King (i.e. governemnt) that can govern in peace. In my personal opinion, a minority government that bows to the whims of independents and the greens would not achieve that result.
Maxine McKew rightly assessed the sentiments (at least for her Bennalong electorate), namely indeed it is a strategic mistake. In her Chinese dominated electorate, the betrayal (the exact opposite of the virtue of loyalty esteemed by the Chinese) by the labor party in deposing a PM with fluent Mandarin has cost them the electorate, predicatbly.
However, she is also right in expressing the lack of policy and conviction expressed by either party, and the lack of hope or excitement in her electorate (which is also true of my feeling).
We have not been given any policies of note, and instead have been given just character assinations repeated over and over (i remember watching the train-wreck Ad - THREE TIMES - during ONE commercial break.)
Neither party in their speeches has said anything of note. (well, abbott has once again made a fool of himself , attacking Gillard and labor instead of doing anything positive to form government).
I personally would have hoped that either of them woudl have said the following:
'We have clearyl outlined (whatever our policies/action) is during this campaign, and respect the opinion of the public, etc. We will work with whichever indepedent/green and try to head towards this direction, etc, etc)
What saddens me most is that there is that both the upper and lower house may hang in the balance of the greens - one of the most openly anti-Christian policital party. I earnestly pray right now that either party (hopefully the coalition) can form a majority governemtn without involving a minor party.
It is right in 2 Timothy that we pray for a King (i.e. governemnt) that can govern in peace. In my personal opinion, a minority government that bows to the whims of independents and the greens would not achieve that result.
Tuesday, August 10, 2010
reflection on andrew hong's post
here are 2 recent post by andrew hong
part 1:
Q. how interested are Asian bible college students in serving in a chinese church? A. http://bit.ly/9MMn4H
part 2:
Q. so what makes asian theological students worried about serving in a chinese church? A: http://bit.ly/bObnNA
and here's a summary from andrew hong's post:
part 1: theological graduates will consider (in order of decreasing desrability)
1) overseas mission
2) parachurch
3) working in non chinese church
4) working in chinese church
part 2:
The (chinese) church's leadership (deacons, elders, wardens) is the most concering factor for theological graduates.
here's my response (it appeared first on andrew hong's wall on FB):
it proves the saying/mentality: the grass is greener on the other side (this is the reflection of reading both your posts). People do like the adventure of o'seas mission and the perceived freedom from structures that one may envisage. but having experienced both sides of the coin, one should realise that accountability is benficial, and in fact, at times overseas mission is a much more difficult situation, with the missionary at times answerable to 4 sets of rules/authorities:
1) the agency's dominant authority (usually N american),
2) local leadership
3) sending leadership
4) ch leadership.
i am writing this not to downplay the importance of mission. (The fame of God amongst the nations, ala Piper cf Ps 67, is a personal driving force). However, i am writing this to show the importance of the right motive in going to mission (or indeed any ministry). Overseas mission will not avoid leadership structures. it exists in all parts of the world. in fact, interpersonal issues are the #1 factor in missionary attrition. as mentioned by the following (excellent) book:
* Too Valuable to Lose: Exploring the Causes and Cures of Missionary Attrition
By William David Taylor
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=S_lOJ5tZdoIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=too+valuable+to+lose+missionary+attrition&source=bl&ots=QCLJS5BcIP&sig=gIXwDIGk15HTGVGbW7weD4vKUnI&hl=en&ei=sahhTO6hA9ivcOnyxK4J&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
i believe the key, as explained in my second entry on AH's wall:
"also, while many ppl are willing to be cross cultural students in a mission environment, usually most ppl fail to do so working in a chinese church."
If interpersonal conflict is a main issue, surely one would do well to do that and treat working in any ministry as a cross cultural environmnet.
one of the best courses i have done @ SMBC (amongst many) is cross cultural communication by Richard Hibbert.
The course teaches one to analyse culture from various aspects (e.g. power distance, etc, etc) and what i have learnt is to ask questions of the culture before passing judgement.
I guess if we use the same set of (tinted/untinted) glasses (as well as, obviously, Christian, grace, love and forbearance) to look at local and overseas ministry, it would solve many of the interpsonal isue problems.
part 1:
Q. how interested are Asian bible college students in serving in a chinese church? A. http://bit.ly/9MMn4H
part 2:
Q. so what makes asian theological students worried about serving in a chinese church? A: http://bit.ly/bObnNA
and here's a summary from andrew hong's post:
part 1: theological graduates will consider (in order of decreasing desrability)
1) overseas mission
2) parachurch
3) working in non chinese church
4) working in chinese church
part 2:
The (chinese) church's leadership (deacons, elders, wardens) is the most concering factor for theological graduates.
here's my response (it appeared first on andrew hong's wall on FB):
it proves the saying/mentality: the grass is greener on the other side (this is the reflection of reading both your posts). People do like the adventure of o'seas mission and the perceived freedom from structures that one may envisage. but having experienced both sides of the coin, one should realise that accountability is benficial, and in fact, at times overseas mission is a much more difficult situation, with the missionary at times answerable to 4 sets of rules/authorities:
1) the agency's dominant authority (usually N american),
2) local leadership
3) sending leadership
4) ch leadership.
i am writing this not to downplay the importance of mission. (The fame of God amongst the nations, ala Piper cf Ps 67, is a personal driving force). However, i am writing this to show the importance of the right motive in going to mission (or indeed any ministry). Overseas mission will not avoid leadership structures. it exists in all parts of the world. in fact, interpersonal issues are the #1 factor in missionary attrition. as mentioned by the following (excellent) book:
* Too Valuable to Lose: Exploring the Causes and Cures of Missionary Attrition
By William David Taylor
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=S_lOJ5tZdoIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=too+valuable+to+lose+missionary+attrition&source=bl&ots=QCLJS5BcIP&sig=gIXwDIGk15HTGVGbW7weD4vKUnI&hl=en&ei=sahhTO6hA9ivcOnyxK4J&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
i believe the key, as explained in my second entry on AH's wall:
"also, while many ppl are willing to be cross cultural students in a mission environment, usually most ppl fail to do so working in a chinese church."
If interpersonal conflict is a main issue, surely one would do well to do that and treat working in any ministry as a cross cultural environmnet.
one of the best courses i have done @ SMBC (amongst many) is cross cultural communication by Richard Hibbert.
The course teaches one to analyse culture from various aspects (e.g. power distance, etc, etc) and what i have learnt is to ask questions of the culture before passing judgement.
I guess if we use the same set of (tinted/untinted) glasses (as well as, obviously, Christian, grace, love and forbearance) to look at local and overseas ministry, it would solve many of the interpsonal isue problems.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)